December 2, 2005

Can women MAKE men fathers?

I've been reading a book that really has me thinking and I have a question for y'all

A woman who proceeds with a pregnancy against her partner's wishes has every right to do so.

BUT

Should she have the right to force the partner into something as life altering as parenting knowing that he wants no part in having a child?

31 comments:

Darius 74 said...

When you lay down to have sex with someone the possibility of having a child is always present. However, the decision to become a parent(s) should be up to both individuals. Not just the potential mother or the father.

Mudge said...

If the possibility of having a child is always present, then you should always be prepared to be a parent. Unless you're ok with abortions.

LadyBlue said...

Was the book When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost? Cause I know in that book they talk about this issue and I know when I read it it really made me stop and think right quick. We give women a choice in bringing pregnancies to full term since it's our bodies, often regardless of the how the man feels, but when it comes to being parents we don't feel men should have a choice. I just thought that was interesting.

Fierea said...

If you don't want to be parents then you better be prepared to double up on the contraceptves and make sure you both know the situation.. However if a woman goes ahead tricks him into believing she is on some method of birth control becomes pregnant , he was adamant of not wanting to or be ready for fatherhood then no he should not be forced, he may eventually want to participate in the child's life. but if not it is his choice......

Darius 74 said...

Mudge,

I think you're missing my point. There is a difference in a man and a woman dealing with possibilities that will affect not only themselves but also a child, and the mother making a conscious decision without the knowledge of the father that will affect the father and the baby.

I only believe in abortions in limited circumstances such as rape, incest, death being imminent to the life of the mother, and in extreme circumstances by allowing the pregnancy to come full term it will harm the life of the child. None of those circumstances includes having an abortion because you had sex and realized you weren't ready to be a parent, or you didn't want to have a child with the person you slept with. Too bad. I am a big believer in personal responsibility. If I sleep with a woman and she becomes pregnant then I am going to raise that child (even if she doesn't want to).

JenellyBean said...

Yes LadyBlue thats the book.

It really has me thinking cus on the one hand:

Yes, we both laid down and had sex knowing the possibility of having a child was there

Yes, you are pregnant

No, I do not want to father a child.

So now, she can abort it, give it up, or have it.

I (speaking as a man) should have a decision on behalf of the child we both created and I say NO! I do not want to have a child.

If she takes it on her own to have the baby, why should I be forced into such a commitment? I didn't wan this and there are available measures. I let her know in advance that I didn't want this child and she continued with the process. Now she, myself, and the child have to suffer.

I am forced to pay child support and help raise a child I didn't want to have

The child suffers living in a single family home and we all know the negativities of that on a female and a male

And she has to live with all of this as a consequence.

Does she have the right to do all this?

Fierea said...

NO..........

JenellyBean said...

And if she does go through with it.

Do I (speaking as a man) have to pay child support?
Do I have to make sure she and my child are in good health and are taken care of?

Fierea said...

No if he chooses not to want anything to do with either he should not be guilted into something he didn't ask for in the first place. How many women use pregnancy as a trap to hold a man?

JenellyBean said...

I agree

So then would you agree that the government doesn't have a right to make me (speaking as a man) pay child support for this child?


(Anyone can chime in and answer these questions, this question is not directed to Fi alone, although I welcome her participation)

JenellyBean said...

Mudge,

And if she is not ok with abortions but I (speaking as a man) am ok with abortions who gets to decide for me as the man?

dappa said...

no he should not be made a father aganist his will. A woman should not hold THAT much leaverage over a man like that because women would hate it and still hate it to this day if a man holds some form of power over them. Both did the act and both should have EQUAL say and ladies yall always say yall want fairness and equality, then you have to also be fair and equal. So no a woman has no right what so ever to make a man something he does not want, not now and not ever.

Fierea said...

Maybe there should be a contract drawn up with different criteria along with stipulations in the event a pregnancy takes place.Negating him any responsibility
But on the opposite side of the fence, there are men who will try and impregnate a female by removing his condom just before ejaculation with the intention of tricking her into an unwanted situation... Should he then be responsible in paying for the morning after pill......an abortion if she chooses that route or should she make him accountable, financially drain him, not only support his child but she has a hold on him using every method to make sure she makes his life as miserable out of spite.....reminding him it was his fault.......

dappa said...

does the later even make any sense? why would she even WANT to deal with him if he is that trife? If he did that then yes he should pay for the pill and/or the abortion. the contract idea isnt half bad at all!

JenellyBean said...

Fierea...

For this situation he should be responsible for the child.

But the child should never be a tool of Vengeance. Vengeance is wrong in every stretch of the word and she should never use the child in this way.

dappa said...

excatly but women have also used children to trap men, say nba stars or famous men, for their money. The man has no choice but to pay which is also unfair if she INTENTIONALLY gets pregnant

Fierea said...

Of course it doesn't make sense but how many women still do that?

dappa said...

you want the ones that go unreported or the ones we know about

JenellyBean said...

Yea, the contract Idea isn't a bad idea.
the author of this book Joan Morgan makes some reference to something like that.

Please read the following.

"A woman who proceeds with a pregnancy against her partner's wishes has every right to do so but should she have the right to force another human being into something as life altering as parenting? If we don't allow a father's desire for parenthood to impinge on an unwilling mother's desire for an abortion, how then, both legally and morally, can we ignore an unwilling father's objections to parenthood?

According to law professor Melanie G. McCulley, we can't. McCulley has advocated legislation that would allow men faced with an unwanted pregnancy the legal right to abdicate their parental rights up until the first six months after the child's birth. She cites the unwillingness of courts to recognize and protects the "procreative choice" of the reputed father of a child born out of wedlock and has drafted a model statute that would protect the rights of the putative father. The statute would address situations in which a woman has not chosen adoption or abortion and wants to keep the child. Ordinarily, the putative father would have no say in whether to assume financial responsibilities to the child. The statute represents an attempt to balance the freedom of the woman to choose without interference from the would-be father, and the putative father's freedom not to become a parent.

Furthermore, under the statute, once the baby daddy has abdicated his parental rights--which include by the way, the right to "custody," "companionship," "disciplinary action," managing the kids money, or teaching her right and wrong--he should also be free of all financial responsibility--pretty much for the very same reasons we don't hold birth mothers financially responsible after their children have been adopted. If however, the babydaddy failed to abdicate his rights, then child support would be mandatory."

How does that sound?

chele said...

Can a woman MAKE a man be a father? No. She can make him pay child support if she continues with a pregnancy that he wants no part of.

I disagree with the notion that it is unfair for a man to have to support a child that he didn't want. Unless he's sterile he knows there is a possiblity of pregnancy when he had unprotected sex -- if he didn't want to do the time than he shouldn't do the crime. I'm sick and damn tired of men who think that their responsibility ends once the sweat dries. Yes, she's carrying the baby but unless her name is Mary the conception wasn't immaculate. Wanna get out of the possibility of child support? Invest in some dammit condoms.

JenellyBean said...

Chele...

But if the man tells you that he doesn't want the child you as a woman have options.

How is it fare for him to have to pay support because you defiantly chose to continue with the pregnancy?

It's not like he tricked you, and if he does make you feel like he will be there and then bails HELL YEA he has to pay. But if you knowingly continued with the pregnancy who's to blame?

Men deserve a say in the creation and upbringing of a child too dont they?

In essence they both didn't wear a condom. Not just he alone.
So they both deserve to make a choice. And if the man makes the decision to not want to father a child how can the woman blame him later when she knew this?

chele said...

I think you're missing my point ... The conversation that you describe should take place PRIOR to pregnancy. I'm saying if a man does not want to be a father -- with all that entails -- than he shouldn't be having unprotected sex. Hell, he should get a damn vasectomy.

If a man tells me that he doesn't want to be a father before he lays down with me and I (a) don't make him wear a condom (b) lie and say I'm protected or (c) don't get my ass the hell out of there -- than that is on me for just being plain stupid.

BUT if no one says anything about anything until after the stick turns blue then we BOTH made a mistake and we BOTH have to be held accountable.

TRUTHZ said...

um can women make lil boys be men? i think both answers are the same

Curious1 said...

This is what I call, gettin' STIDUCK... That's what they got condoms for na mean?

dappa said...

like i said before, women do not have that right. When women become A sexual, then they can decide without the fathers view to have a child or not because there would be no father. It takes two to create and it should take both to give an ok or come to some agreement about what to do. Some things need to be faced here, its the womans job to carry the child, the mans job to create it, thats the way of it and women who say that the guy should keep his johnson in his pants or use a condom, last time i checked there are female condoms and birth control. No female has that right to decide a mans life,not now and not ever

Seven said...

I know I'm a little late on this one and I know it may never be read. I guess I should repost something like this in my blog....

My younger brother (now 20 yrs. old) has adamently restated on several occasions that babies aren't accidents. In that I believe that he believes that babies are blessings regardless of the conditions they were conceived. How we handle blessings are another dicussinon. When two people engage in sex they do open the door to the possibility of making a baby. More than likely, when folks run away from the responsibility of raising a child it is usually because of SELFISH reasons. But we fail to realize that regardless of the conditions, it is not about the individual anymore. It's about that life. S many of my male friends have told females time and time again, they aren't up to raising a child now. However, just like they've told me, they may be upset with the situation but they have a life to think about now. And like I've told plenty of fellas, if I turn up prego and his ass gets pissy over it or goes ghost, fuck him to hell, its all about my baby.

JenellyBean said...

Thanks for your comments Sister Chele, Sister Truthz, Brother Curious, Brother Dappa, and Sister Seven.

lyre said...

Abortion is not an option for me, spiritually, so a man that lays with me would have to understand that life is the only option. I think I would be up front about that BEFORE but i also understand that passion stuff happens. I am not so sure about forcing a man though to be a father. I think I would accept a legal termination of parental rights in lieu of child support and a half assed father being in my child's life. I would look for a good god-father that would accept that parental role-minus the child support of course. And I know plenty "good men" that would be happy to take it on!

dappa said...

truthfully women have too much control over this issue, so to avoid that shit, i dont fuck just any chick plain and simple. my life is my life and will not be messed up cause some broad wants to decide my life for me

lyre said...

I feel you there, Dappa. guess what? I dont like to be fucked either!!! I sure feel ya there. I guess that is why there is a big abstinence movement now. Sure helps the toy industry!! (Smile) Hell, even when you know them and you marry them they still leave or trick you into parenting. So what is the answer? Don't have relations till you know you want to Father/Mother a child and are reasonable certain of the person you want to father/mother a child with!!!

JenellyBean said...

Uh uh... there has to be a better solution!

I'm gonna have me some good relations!

;-)

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